Q&A with Lay & Ordained Women in Ministry
July 29th, 2024, will mark 50 years since the ordinations of the first Episcopal women priests in Philadelphia, PA. The Philadelphia Eleven are eleven women who were the first women ordained as priests in the Episcopal Church on July 29, 1974, two years before General Convention affirmed and explicitly authorized the ordination of women to the priesthood.
In honor of 50 years of women's ordination, we are pleased to share a Q&A with a few ordained and lay women in the Diocese of Oklahoma: The Rev. Nancy Gill, Vicar at St. Paul's in Claremore; the Rev. Dana Orwig, Priest Associate for Congregational Care at Grace Church in Yukon, the Rev. Janie Koch, Vicar of All Saints in McAlester, Heather Sessing Episcopal Church Women President, the Rev. Gloria Walters Vicar of St. Mark’s in Hugo and St. Luke’s Idabel, and Kate Carney Bond, the Diocesan Director of Faith Formation and Discipleship. In addition, Oklahoma's own Rev. Sarah Smith and Diocesan Archivist Pam Bell collaborated on a project documenting the history of women's ordination in the Oklahoma diocese. This project, part of a seminary project that the Rev. Sarah worked on, includes podcasts and a timeline featuring the first few women ordained in Oklahoma. You can check out the project here!
Question: Why do you think the world needs ordained women?
Answer: The Rev. Janie Koch
I believe the world needs ordained women because women are the world. The pivotal times in the God-arc of human existence have either involved women or were co-created because of women. To offer any other "reasoning" why the world needs ordained women would be a justification of our existence in that space. To justify existence is to diminish its reality. We ordained women now stand amidst the shattered glass of the Philadelphia Eleven. We live and move and have our being through the breath and power of the Spirit. As we stand at the altar and celebrate Holy Communion, the women who have gone before us stand beside and behind and in front of us. This visual image that my imagination conjures brings to fruition that desire that the six-year-old girl who stood in the bed of her dad's pickup. I believe that little girl is happy. May all the little girls who watch us women love and live with Jesus someday find their own feet also crunching the shattered glass.
Answer: Heather Sessing
The world needs ordained women because without them we would miss out on experiencing the sophia portion of God in our clergy. When we only see one side of God at every pulpit, our religious experiences at church are incomplete.
Answer: The Rev. Nancy Gill
A few months ago, I was at an interdenominational luncheon where a woman whom I would guess is close to my age mentioned that I was the first woman she had ever seen wearing a clerical collar. I don't think that is an unusual scenario, especially in this part of the country. I hope young girls see me in my "priestly garb" and come to the realization that they too can pursue positions of leadership.
Answer: The Rev. Dana Orwig
People who are searching for a deeper relationship with God, or a community that they can be a part of need to see church leaders who look like them. We need men, women, 2 spirit, LGBTQ, young, old, black, white, etc. As the older version of the Prayer Book says, all sorts and conditions of “men”. We can’t hope to be in touch with all that God calls us to be if we restrict ordination to only a small percentage of the variety of ways that God has created humanity.
Answer: The Rev. Gloria Walters
What we need are more ordained priests, male and female. Gender has nothing to do with the call. I understood that in 1976 and stand by that. Many Episcopal charismatic male priests and even Bishops went to ACNA because of inadequate sacramental and Biblical theology.
Question: What gives you hope and inspiration when you hear the story of the Philly 11?
Answer: The Rev. Dana Orwig
It reminds me that things DO change and that sometimes we can make progress. When I grew up in the Episcopal Church, I couldn't be an acolyte, my mother couldn't serve on the Vestry, and I never dreamed that "priest" and "woman" could be the same thing. Just in the span of my lifetime things have changed pretty dramatically. I feel much the same way about the inclusion of 2SLGBTQ+ individuals in the church. My grandkids are growing up in a church that is both very different, and very much the same as the one I grew up in. That makes me happy.
Answer: Kate Carney Bond
What inspires me most about the ministry of women, lay and ordained, is the extent to which women continue to press the Church to understand the fullness of the ministry of all the baptized and how this reflects the beauty of the Imago Dei. Personally, I am inspired daily by a number of my women colleagues in ministry, lay and ordained, who seem to balance ministry and life in amazing ways.
Answer: The Rev. Gloria Walters
That ordination in 1974 gave me hope that someday I could at last be a priest. I still believe that solid Biblical and sacramental theology supports not only ordination of women but also of LGBTQ sisters and brothers.I also love serving my small churches. I am grateful for my detour through the UMC church, Oxford, and evangelism. I am a better priest for it.
Answer: Heather Sessing
Two of the biggest things that inspire me are the many acts of service that are both seen and unseen everyday to the benefit of not themselves but someone else and that women priests hear the call to ministry from God so clearly that they are willing to serve the world in spite of the sexism they have more than likely encountered walking around with a collar on.
Answer: The Rev. Nancy Gill
This event took place the same year I was born, and I think it involves some very brave individuals - both women and men. Even 50 years later, there are so many churches, denominations, and religious institutions who have not approved women in positions of leadership; but the story of the Philly 11 gives me hope that perhaps one day that will change.
Question: What do you want your children to learn from ordained women?
Answer: Heather Sessing
I want my children to learn that our God is not gender-bound and neither is the priesthood. I want my kids to grow up thinking it’s crazy there was ever a time when females weren’t allowed into the priesthood. I want them to think about the amazing women priests they know and learn from and understand how much brighter their church and community are because of the diversity of clergy.
Answer: Kate Carney Bond
As a lay person in the church and as a mother, it is incredibly important for me to raise my daughter in a congregation where she can see women engaged at all levels of ministry and where there are no barriers for her own ministry in the future - lay or ordained. I love that she can see herself reflected in so many of the leaders in our congregations - lay and ordained.
Question: What women, both in and outside of ministry, inspire you?
Answer: The Rev. Nancy Gill
My mother definitely inspires me. She passed away in 2017, but she was an individual with a deep knowledge of and love for scripture and who spent countless hours in prayer. I was also very impressed with Mary Foster Parmer when I heard her speak at the Invite, Welcome, Connect seminar presented by the diocese several years ago. She shared her story, which is very similar to mine, and that was part of what convinced me that what I was feeling was really a calling, and that it was okay for me to pursue it. I am inspired by all of the women with whom I graduated from IONA. I am inspired by one of the women of my parish who is 93 years old and still faithfully and joyfully serving God and our congregation.
Answer: The Rev. Gloria Walters
First is my mother, age 95, who had the courage to cash in her retirement and get her PhD after her divorce. She taught to retirement as a full professor in a university. She is an author of a reading method and is a successful artist. She has been senior warden twice, served as a lay reader, and is fellowship chair of St. John’s. She encouraged me to get impeccable credentials that could not be challenged. The other women were outside of our denomination, like Anne Giminez, author of The Emerging Christian Woman; Marilyn Hickey, bible teacher, and Joyce Meyers, Christian author and teacher.
Question: When did you hear a call to ministry? What was the discernment process like for you?
Answer: The Rev. Janie Koch
We were in the bed of Dad's beat up blue Ford pickup eating popsicles. Taking a break from playing hide-and-seek and whatever other games six-year-old kids can come up with in the freedom of the summer, Jimmy asked me, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" My immediate response was, "A nun." Fast forward almost forty years. I have reflected on that conversation and many similar to it in my childhood and formative years in the Southern Baptist church where women were to remain silent and in the church nursery, children's education, and in the kitchen. I always felt a pull towards church ministry, but I did not have a framework of what that looked like in my historical context. Having joined the Episcopal church in my 40s and wanting to learn more about the church and its rich spirituality, I went to seminary. Throughout the process of completing my MDiv, several dear people around me throughout seminary said that I should discern a call for holy orders, and yet the training of my youth prompted me to respond, "No. Women aren't supposed to be in church leadership." However, in the last few months of classes, a pulling, a calm excitement, a feeling of "being drawn out of something" consumed me. I entered into the journey of discernment, and joy in community in this process broke open for me. The process of discernment in Oklahoma was engaging, supportive, and compassionate as we all shared our vulnerabilities, hopes, and responses to the movements of Spirit in our lives.
Answer: The Rev. Dana Orwig
I think the first time that I heard what I would describe as a call to ministry was at a Cursillo in 1983. I was a cradle Episcopalian and had always attended church and been active in many ways, but at that Cursillo I was really struck by the idea that there was more to the Christian life than what I was currently experiencing. At that time, I had no thought of ordained ministry, just an idea that I too could be one of Christ’s apostles. I had a wonderful discernment process. Fr. Hal Greenwood was in charge of aspirancy at that time. We met at St. Crispin’s at the same time the Deacon Formation group was meeting and we often did a shared activity in the evening. Hal was a fascinating and inspiring man and even all these years later I remember feeling like my eyes were being opened over and over again. It really was kind of magical.
Answer: The Rev. Nancy Gil
l I think I have always felt drawn in some way to special ministry. When I was younger, I considered becoming a missionary and did go on several short-term mission trips. Then I pursued music ministry and served as a church music director for several years. It was not until 2017, as a relatively new Episcopalian, that I began to consider that I might be called to the priesthood. The discernment process was very long for me. I spent well over a year pondering it in my own heart before I began to share my thoughts with anyone else. Then, the first people I spoke to about it were my former priest and his wife and my sister. Discovering that I had their support gave me the courage to begin discussions with the leadership at church. It was their positive feedback which finally helped me to pursue ordination. Of course, the discernment process involves much more than one year of aspirancy; I feel that, even though I am now ordained, I am still discerning where God is leading me next.
Answer: The Rev. Gloria Walters
I grew up in a lovely Episcopal church but there were no female lay readers, acolytes, vestry members, and certainly no female priests. I sang in the choir, went to youth group, and taught preschool Sunday school in high school.
In the spring of 1966 when I was in my first year of college as a music major, I joined the choir of an Episcopal church and was invited to a weekend retreat by a Baptist friend. Through that weekend, I had an encounter with Jesus and was given a little book by John Sherrill, an Episcopalian, called “They Speak with Other Tongues.” This led me to an experience of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I also knew that I was called in ministry. I went home that summer and made an appointment with my priest to tell him what had happened and that I was called to be a priest. He was very kind and sent me to be a camp counselor.
The next year, I transferred to a college in Houston and was told by a friend to try out the Episcopal Church of the Redeemer, a pioneer in the Episcopal charismatic renewal. I loved it and joined the choir of Betty Pulkingham who arranged and wrote much of our renewal music. There were still no women in leadership.
In the next years, I led worship in a variety of settings. After moving to Oklahoma, I met Father Jack Wyatt who was Canon for Evangelism with Bishop Powell. Father Wyatt asked me to be his worship leader as he began a new Episcopal evangelism ministry that traveled throughout Oklahoma and the Southeastern United States. On each evangelism weekend, there would be a teaching on the sacraments led by Father Jack and the local priest. I received a seminary education in the sacraments and understood that gender was not a factor in either receiving or administering the sacraments. When I began to travel with the ministry, the Philadelphia 11 were ordained in 1974 and the issue of ordination of women began to work its way through general convention. My call to the priesthood was stirred up again but I was told not to speak of it because it was too controversial. I was obedient but I did not change my mind.
Later, I returned to Oklahoma and completed a master’s and PhD in special education, led choir in my local Episcopal Church and waited for ordination of women to make it to Oklahoma. When it did, you had to have the recommendation of the vestry to even talk to the Bishop. My home church vestry refused to even meet with me.
In 1987, I went with members of my local church to the World Ecumenical Congress on Evangelism. At lunch one day, a priest and leader in the Episcopal charismatic renewal was sitting with a group of us and made the statement, “I’m not sure the sacrament is valid if a woman celebrates.” Something snapped in me, and I decided to stop beating my head against the Episcopal wall. My call was to preach the gospel and I was going to answer it. I moved to the Dallas area began a journey through other churches. I was invited to a large evangelical UMC church. I met with the pastor who heard my story and said, “We will take you.” I was the first woman he ever recommended for ordination for preaching. He sent me to Perkins at SMU where I received an outstanding theological education. I was already immersed in biblical and sacramental theology and began to read Wesley. After receiving my M.Div., my mentor William Abraham sent me to his college at Oxford for further theological training.
When I returned to Dallas, I received a position as Senior Associate Pastor of Trietsch UMC, a fast-growing church in the North Texas Conference. After several years, I began to receive invitations to preach, and this grew into an ecumenical evangelism ministry. I traveled through Canada, Trinidad West Indies, the US., and went to India five times. I usually found that I was the first woman to step into the pulpit of these churches.
After 9/11, I stopped traveling internationally and returned to the Dallas area to preach and work in the public school with my other vocation. I returned to Oklahoma because of my mother’s health and decided to give my home Episcopal church a try again. I did not even ask about the priesthood; it came to me. My priest, Father Jim Blagg, ask me to consider a new program for bi-vocational priests. I was reluctant but the Bishop, discernment committee, and BACAM said yes. I was finally ordained a transitional deacon in 2013 and a priest in 2014. I was assigned three churches. I put my evangelism shoes back on, gave thanks for understanding Wesley’s itinerant ministry and started traveling. I haven’t stopped yet.
